Salt N PepaFrom the '80s into the '90s, Salt-N-Pepa dropped successive hits. But, live, there's an anthem in the Queens, New York trio's catalogue that never feels humdrum for Cheryl "Salt" James.
"Shoop would be that one," James says. "It's such a fun, tongue-in-cheek song. The women love singing it. I think the women love just to recite the lyrics. It was like the number one karaoke song for some crazy amount of time. So it's a great sing-along – I just love a good sing-along – and it's just a fun song to perform."
In fact, Shoop is Salt-N-Pepa's top tune on Spotify, having been revived in 2016 when memorably synced for Marvel's superhero smash Deadpool starring Ryan Reynolds.
The 'First Ladies Of Rap' are returning to Australia this November for the first time since 2018's RNB Fridays Live as "very special guests" on a tour led by the Motown male vocal harmony group Boyz II Men alongside, in their Australian premiere, New Jack Swing progenitors (and New Edition spin-off) Bell Biv DeVoe – a triple t[h]reat.
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And, sanguinely, James and co-rapper Sandra "Pepa" Denton have long reconciled with DJ Spinderella (aka Deidra Roper), who'll be joining them in Australia. ("Yes, she is," James affirms.) Indeed, Roper was dismissed in early 2019, the same year she was last here alone to DJ at Groovin The Moo. The outlook is auspicious – Salt-N-Pepa have a new synergy.
Glamorous with a ponytail and elaborate hoop earrings, James is publicising the run via Zoom from home, surrounded by family photos plus troves of trophies and plaques. She's anticipating a hectic few months as Salt-N-Pepa will zigzag across North America with TLC and the New Jill Swing En Vogue on IT'S ICONIC: THE TOUR.
Yet James is equally hyped by the expansive Australian bill. "The line-up, I think, is awesome," she enthuses. "It's a show I would definitely go to see." James has a favourite song by Boyz II Men, too. "Oh, yeah, End Of The Road," she offers immediately. "They have so many… So I'm just gonna say End Of The Road." Coincidentally, the ballad was 1992's #1 US single.
Salt-N-Pepa have an enduring relationship with Australia. They originally toured in 1994 on the back of their supernova album Very Necessary – encompassing the classics Shoop, Whatta Man (featuring En Vogue) and None Of Your Business.
The Brooklynite has often recounted the tale but still laughs in awe: "I remember the first time we came out there in the early '90s and walking out on the stage – and the roar from the crowd literally had me look behind me like, 'Who just came out here behind us?' Sometimes, when you're from the States, until you go, you don't really know that you're being celebrated in other places so much."
Over four decades in, Salt-N-Pepa's achievements are colossal, the three pulling off an epic list of firsts as an all-woman hip-hop group – including platinum certifications and Grammy wins (completed by a 2021 Lifetime Achievement Award). In 2018 they were the first hip hop act to launch a residency in Las Vegas, with a nostalgic choreographed show at the casino hotel Paris Las Vegas.
More significantly, last year Salt-N-Pepa became the first female rap group to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame (the feted 'Musical Influence' category), with Roper the first female turntablist. What feat is James proudest of? "I would say [being] the first female rappers to have international success," she ponders. "We were 'pop' before 'pop' was popular. We were known all over the world, before any female artists that I know of."
Emerging from hip hop's golden age, Salt-N-Pepa blitzed through a male-dominated scene where women were tokenised. In 1985, James and Denton were both studying nursing at community college while employed at the US department store Sears. James' boyfriend, the aspiring beatmaker Hurby "Luv Bug" Azor, convinced the duo to lay down The Showstopper (Is Stupid Fresh) – an answer record to Doug E Fresh's The Show.
The track blew up on local radio and, then named Super Nature, the outfit released it independently, culminating in an album deal. They promptly cut 1986's debut Hot, Cool & Vicious. At this point, Salt-N-Pepa was a trio with Latoya Hanson as 'Spinderella', but she was soon replaced by the teen Roper. Their 1987 worldwide break-out, Push It, was retrospectively added to the LP – the sleeper B-side remixed into a radio hit by pioneering San Francisco DJ Cameron Paul. And so Salt-N-Pepa were the earliest female rap act to reach platinum album sales in the US.
Following in the tradition of the '70s Black R&B icons Betty Davis and Millie Jackson, as well as Madonna, the streetwise Salt-N-Pepa advocated for women's empowerment and body – and sex – positivity when hip hop was defined by hyper-masculinity. They unleashed the hip-house banger Let's Talk About Sex, an Australian chart-topper off their third outing, 1990's Blacks' Magic, promoting safe sex amid the AIDS crisis. Crucially, the women gradually involved themselves more on the production side.
In 1993, Salt-N-Pepa peaked with Very Necessary – US multi-platinum and, in Australia, Top 5 and platinum. They'd technically be the first female rap act to score a Grammy for None Of Your Business, Queen Latifah collecting hers later at the ceremony. Meanwhile, Salt-N-Pepa branched out – dipping into acting.
But, after Very Necessary, they severed ties with Azor. In 1997, Salt-N-Pepa assumed a fashionably sophisticated image for their fifth, and last, album, Brand New. Alas, marketing plans were derailed by financial turmoil at the triumvirate's new label, Red Ant Entertainment – former MCA Music Entertainment Group Chairman/CEO Al Teller heading the formative digital distribution company with venture capital funding.
James split from the combo, citing fatigue with the entertainment biz – causing a rift with Denton. She decided to focus on family life and her Christian faith. Eventually, in 2007, Salt-N-Pepa reformed, filming the VH1 reality program The Salt-N-Pepa Show as therapy. Three years on, they found their way back to Australia, playing the Good Vibrations Festival with Busta Rhymes and Kid Cudi.
In recent times, James has been candid about how, struggling with industry pressure, public scrutiny and constant disruptive travel at the height of Salt-N-Pepa's commercial prosperity, she was living with bulimia nervosa. Post-Brand New, James needed to recover. The MC has since done much to raise awareness of bulimia – Black women vulnerable to the eating disorder yet encountering inequity in accessing treatment and support. In 2026, James' goal is self-care, particularly on tour.
"I haven't been on the road in a while, so that's gonna be a different experience for me – especially now. But I'm taking a trainer with me, and I've adopted a new regimen. I've been working with someone on my eating habits, and so I'm figuring out before I go on the road how to carry over this new way of eating on the road with this nutritionist. So [it's about] working out and staying away from chaos and drama – like really taking my quiet time. Yeah, just peace – I love peace, protecting my peace.
"I'm single, so that's great! I don't have that kind of stress going on in my life. I'm enjoying just being Cheryl. I gave so much of myself to being a wife and a mother over the years. A lot of people think it's strange that I'm not really dating or I don't have a new person in my life – I got divorced [from husband Gavin Wray] in 2018 – and I'm like, 'That's really by choice,' because I'm actually enjoying myself being single."
Brand New will be 30-years-old in 2027. While latterly Salt-N-Pepa have favoured retro tours, they've occasionally hinted at fresh music – only it's never materialised. But Salt-N-Pepa did team with the '80s boy group New Kids On The Block, En Vogue and, outrageously, the Brit Rick Astley for the ingenious Bring Back The Time, plugging NKOTB's Mixtape Tour 2022.
Increasingly, seasoned artists other than rockers such as The Rolling Stones are proving that they can still release relevant albums. Another Hall Of Famer, LL COOL J received acclaim for 2024's THE FORCE, with Q-Tip producing (and a contemporary guest in Saweetie), and in interviews challenged the media's ageism and a culture of generational turnover. Additionally, Madonna has renewed her cultural cachet with the viral dance juggernaut CONFESSIONS II.
Could Salt-N-Pepa revisit the idea of a late-era comeback? "I think so," James responds. "I think that's definitely [possible] since, like you said, there's so many legacy artists that are putting out music. I think there was a time where we kind of bought into like, 'You're too old, just stick with the music that you did, you can't top that music.' [But] these artists are paving the way for legacy artists to feel more comfortable expressing themselves – because we probably have a lot more to say now than we did back then with life experience."
James, who proposed a solo project during Salt-N-Pepa's hiatus, has quietly issued music independently as Cheryl "Salt" James, combining her authentic flow with modern gospel epistles. (She initially collaborated with Kirk Franklin in the late '90s.) "I actually am putting out an album, a solo album, called Salty N Lit. I've put out three singles that's gotten a great response from Gen X and older Millennials – 'cause I'm not targeting younger people, I'm targeting the people that love and appreciate Salt-N-Pepa."
Last year, James aired Chosen to set the vibe, succeeded by the hip hop homage Kings & Queens (its video shot at the Hip Hop Museum in The Bronx). "I just did a song with Erica Campbell of Mary Mary [the contemporary gospel sister duo crossing over with Shackles (Praise You) in 1999] called Overcomers, celebrating the vintage ladies and all the things that we've been through and how we're still here, we're still thriving, we're still looking good, we're still going on all-girls trips and we're congregating at church on Sundays – and we're proud of it."
Making Salty & Lit, James has rediscovered her groove – and motivation. "Maybe after that, me and Pep will go in the studio. It's kind of feeling like it's naturally progressing in that direction. So I'm feeling out the waters on an independent level. And then I think probably me and Pep will be back in the studio."
Today James' camaraderie with Denton is strong – the pair in sync. "I think part of the longevity and the success of Salt-N-Pepa has a lot to do with Salt-N-Pepa's energy together. It's kind of like we were meant to be together. It's weird. It gets annoying at some times 'cause you're really locked into this person and it's not always by choice, you know! So I think that, because we're really friends, because we've created this baby that we have to co-parent, we can't really leave each other.
"If you have a bad time with someone, you can really just 'X' them out of your life if you want. [But] you can't have that when you're in a group. You've created a legacy. So you gotta work your stuff out – and that creates a deeper bonding experience.
"But the thing I feel like we had in common that bonded us was laughter – like we have this very warped, weird sense of humour that most people don't understand except us. And I think that really locks friends in, when they can just crack up to you – like rolling on the floor laughing together."
Proclaiming themselves "global rap royalty," Salt-N-Pepa broke down barriers for subsequent waves of 'queens' – from TLC to Lil' Kim and her adversary Foxy Brown to Missy Elliott and Eve to the flamboyant (and controversial) Nicki Minaj, Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion.
In 2026, women not only run the hip-hop game but are also at the forefront of pop culture – Doja Cat, the 'Queen Of Pop Rap', Latto, Ice Spice, GloRilla and Doechii all blowing up. Even Australia's hip-hop movement has a better gender balance with Tkay Maidza, BARKAA and Miss Kaninna.
Does James believe that Salt-N-Pepa have been given their flowers by Gen Z MCs? The old schooler isn't fussed. "I'm not really listening to a lot of new music, 'cause I'm a woman of a certain age and a lot of the music is kind of just going over my head for the most part," she admits, chuckling. "I still listen to obviously the women that I came up with.
"As far as them giving us our flowers, I don't hear this generation really mentioning the generation before them that much. But it's not something that I really concern myself with or think about, for the most part. If they do, that's great. If not, that's cool, too.
"We know who we are. We've just been inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame, and we've done all the things that they still are aspiring to do. So we're really solid in our contribution to music, and we feel good about what we've accomplished."
Salt-N-Pepa are chronicling their professional and personal history. In 2008, Denton – briefly married to Treach from Naughty By Nature – published an unvarnished autobiography, Let's Talk About PEP: The Salt-N-Pepa Superstar Tells It How It Is (its preface by Latifah and epilogue by Elliott).
Then Salt-N-Pepa co-executive produced 2021's eponymous bio-pic for the Lifetime network, with Mario Van Peebles directing (James was portrayed by GG Townson, granddaughter of The 5th Dimension's Ronald Townson of Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In fame).
James penned words for Visionary Million-Heir Williams' anthology Mental Health Matters: Breaking The Silence, Igniting Hope, And Redefining Wellness, but doubts that she'll proceed with a memoir of her own.
"I'm not sure. I've thought about it from time to time [but] I don't know if it's something I feel like is really necessary for me to do," James explains. "Here's how I feel about writing books: when I start getting into writing a book, I start thinking about the people that are in my story and how they did not want to be famous – and I struggle over writing them into my story and their business into my story.
“I feel like it could cause unnecessary tension in some of my relationships that I don't necessarily need. Like I said, I'm in the pursuit of peace. So, if I did write a book, it will probably be more faith-based – it would be more about what God has meant to me in my life as a Christian woman." She doesn't seek any drama. "Yeah!" James reiterates her maxim: "No one gets to disturb my peace anymore – it's not allowed."
However, James does address an urban myth that media personality Wendy Williams has cultivated – that she auditioned for 'Spinderella' back in the day. "Well, that's a story she's been telling for years," James laughs again. "I wasn't on that side of the conversation, so I didn't really know until she told us. [But] I believe her. You know, Hurby was our producer – he was looking for a DJ.
“There was a DJ – it was a guy DJ before, it was another female DJ, and then there was Spinderella. So, somewhere in between, he was hunting for a DJ. So maybe he asked her – but she was doing radio and going in a different direction. She made the right choice for her career, obviously. And so did we."
Salt-N-Pepa join Boyz II Men on their forthcoming Australian tour. Tickets are now available.
Presented by MG Live, Frontier Touring and Arena Touring
Boyz II Men – Australian & New Zealand Tour 2026
With special guests Salt-N-Pepa and Bell Biv Devoe
Thursday, November 26th – RAC Arena, Perth, WA
Ticketek
Saturday, November 28th – A Day On The Green, Mount Duneed Estate, Geelong, VIC
Ticketmaster
Tuesday, December 1st – Spark Arena, Auckland, New Zealand
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Friday, December 4th – TikTok Entertainment Centre, Sydney, NSW
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Saturday, December 5th – A Day On The Green, Bimbadgen, Hunter Valley, NSW
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Sunday, December 6th – A Day On The Green, Sirromet Wines, Mount Cotton, QLD
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This article mentions eating disorders. If you or anyone you know is affected by these issues and seeking support, visit the Butterfly website or call the helpline on 1800 33 4673 (1800 ED HOPE).
