'We're Operating At A Higher Level Than Normal': The Darkness' Justin Hawkins Reflects On 'Dreams On Toast' And Their Love Of Australia

For as long as they've been releasing albums, English glam rockers The Darkness have been a staple of Aussie stages.

First formed back in 2000, the group rose to prominence in 2003 following the release of their debut album, Permission To Land. It was easy to see why, too. The record was filled with singles which encapsulated the group's love of classic rock, filtered through a lens of fun and frivolity and underlined by a dedication of not taking themselves too seriously.

Before long, they'd sold over a million copies of their debut and were well on their way to stardom. Another record (One Way Ticket To Hell… And Back) followed in 2005, but by the end of the following year, frontman Justin Hawkins had left the group, resulting in a six-year gap.

Other projects followed, but since 2012, they've been a going concern with a regular stream of albums and tours following their every move.

Now, with the release of their latest album, Dreams On Toast, The Darkness will be visiting Australian shores once again this February.

As Hawkins speaks via Zoom, he admits it's a little odd to be talking about a future tour focused on material based upon material released back in late March.

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"It's weird because we're an albums band," he admits. "So what usually happens is we do a record then we try and incorporate songs from the record into the live set. But what often happens is they might not make it, they don't feel good to play or whatever, so you end up sort of modifying the set and it evolves or devolves back to something like it was before, and it doesn't really change that much in the end.

"But there's four or five songs from this record which have been in the set, and they've been toured and played at festivals, and they still feel good.

"I think at this point in an album's life is when you find out whether the material is good or not," he adds. "And that's when it really matters, because once you record it you sort of emotionally detach from it, because at that point it's all just about releasing it and nobody cares. But what's really important is how it feels when you play those songs live and they feel great."

For those keeping score at home, Dreams On Toast managed to peak at No. 2 in The Darkness' native UK – their highest chart position since their 2003 debut topped that same chart.

It's a solid album, and arguably one of the band's most accomplished in years, but as Hawkins admits, success on the chart is largely the result of a "popularity contest," with the group's showing on the charts ultimately coming down to what they were up against at the time.

"I think our second record sold enough copies to be number one all year round if it came out today, but it didn't make it to the top 10 because of the week that we released it in," he notes, referring to One Way Ticket To Hell... And Back's No. 11 placing.

"There's a lot of other stuff that was released in that week that maybe isn't as perennial, so a lot of its timing," he adds. "But I do wonder what the currency of success is when you are an album format band."

Indeed, The Darkness might have released a total of six (non-charting) singles from Dreams On Toast, but Hawkins is more focused on the impact of the album as a whole. Ultimately, it comes down to how it resonates with fans rather than how it translates to chart positions.

"Being able to say that we've achieved a good chart position is going to help us when we're in discussions with promoters in territories that we don't visit very often as a live band," he explains. "It reassures the people who have taken a chance on us when we leave this country and we go off and do stuff.

"But in the UK everybody knows who we are," he adds. "I would say we're still quite famous really."

The Darkness are indeed still quite famous in the UK, and many other territories. To continue leaning on chart positions, Dreams On Toast charted in the top 50 in Australia alongside other European countries, proving that their music still appeals to a wide global audience.

But Hawkins' comments about being an album band come to mind again. After all, at a time when many bands are talking about releasing standalone singles to please the dreaded algorithm and to limit their downtime, The Darkness remain committed to making solid bodies of work.

"I don't think when you're writing the individual songs for an album you're really considering the journey that it's going to take you on," he muses. "It's quite freeing to know that you can chase stuff that doesn't sound like a single necessarily, because it can be something interesting that helps the record as a whole."

To prove his point, Hawkins pulls up one of his favourite albums, The Rolling Stones' Sticky Fingers and runs through the tracklist to pick the songs that wouldn't make the cut if it was released in 2025.

"The thing is though, all of those songs enhance the bangers, the Brown Sugars and stuff like that," he explains. "For me, it's a perfect album; I love that record, but if you were going to make a Best Of The Stones, there's three or four songs on there that wouldn't exist. But I'd rather listen to that album than the Best Of The Stones."

"There's an art to it, and it tells you where a band is at as well," he adds. "I just feel like you can really get to feel where an artist is at with an album in a way that you can't with singles."

However, for a band who are currently creating music that serves as something of a snapshot of where a band are at currently, it's worth asking where does an album like this find The Darkness in 2025?

"I think we're operating at a higher level than normal," Hawkins admits. "I think our relationships have been resilient, and ego's a difficult thing to try and navigate. And it's not just mine – although mine is the worst – but I think people get hurt when musical ideas are challenged.

"And then there comes a point when you sort of realise what everybody's role is and people sort of lean into those things and understand what they're there to do, understand how each other works, and also have a laugh doing it."

As Hawkins notes too, the group had plenty of time to work on the record (Dreams On Toast arrives three-and-a-half years after its predecessor), largely due to the fact that 2023 and 2024 were spent focused on Permission To Land's 20th anniversary.

Now, Dreams On Toast also corresponds with The Darkness' 25th anniversary as a band, though 50-year-old Hawkins admits it's hard to say if it actually feels like the group has been part of him for half of his life.

"It sort of ebbs and flows, really, that feeling," he admits. "At the moment it just feels like, 'Well, that's who I am,' and I'm quite comfortable with that."

However, he does point out that his role as a career musician often finds him needing to hand off his social media management to someone else for the sake of his mental health – largely due to the realisation that "the music industry's changed and it isn't necessarily about the art anymore."

"It's really discombobulating for an artist that's been around for a quarter of a century, because we've seen both types or both models of that industry," he explains. "We came in at the arse-end of when people bought records and touring was done to support the record, and now it's the other way around; you make a record to justify the touring.

"That's the one thing that you can't use AI to do, to create the excitement of waiting for your favourite band to come on stage. You can't do that with computers, so we have to do it, and that's great for us; that's what we do. But it means that in my life, the only time that it kind of makes sense is when I'm on stage.

"The rest of it's just like, 'What the fuck am I doing? What is this world that I'm trying to exist in?'" he explains. "Being a dad and being on stage are the only two things that make any sense to me and the rest of it is just like a swirling tempest of fucking nonsense."

Much to Hawkins' delight, live shows are never too far from the mind of The Darkness, and likewise, Australian fans never have to wait too long for a return visit.

"We, The Darkness, are going to be performing in a town near you (if you happen to live near any of the towns that we’re playing in)," the group announced last month, pairing that trademark humour with word they'll be visiting every Australian state (but neither territory) next February and March.

Given that Australia is one of their most frequent markets, the question needs to be asked: why do The Darkness do so well in Australia?

"That's a good question and I don't really know the answer," Hawkins admits. "I know that we prioritise Australia because it's just great fun to be there; it's really awesome. It's such a huge place and it's obviously difficult to get around it with a lot of flying involved, but the shows are amazing.

"When we turn up and play, there's always a great response. We've had some incredible experiences playing in Australia and it's always something that we look forward to doing. The only downside is that it's 24 hours to get there, so you end up pretty exhausted.

"But I've been really pleased with the way the last few tours have gone," he adds. "They've sold well and that started happening quite a few tours ago when we found ourselves having to add shows in places like Melbourne and stuff. There isn't a better feeling than that."

It was rather fitting that The Darkness included Australia on their most recent tour, especially given that their last trek began almost 20 years to the day since they made their first appearance on local shores.

At the time of their first visit, the band were hot property, having released their debut album only four months before they joined the line up of the 2004 Big Day Out festival, appearing alongside names such Metallica, The Strokes, and The Dandy Warhols.

"I think that's probably one of my favorite tours I've ever been on," Hawkins recalls. "I know a lot of people used to call that the Big Day Off because they'd have to build the stage and move it and as I said before, it's a huge place to try and logistically pull a thing like that off, but it meant a lot of hanging out and a lot of seeing bits of the country that you wouldn't normally get to see if you're just touring.

"The Big Day Out gave us a chance to do that, and we fell in love with it."

Most importantly, however, The Darkness' first time in Australia occurred at a time in Hawkins' life which he describes as being "fucking crazy," with an inability to deal with his rising fame at the centre of it all.

Suddenly, the ability to visit a country where the band's profile was still growing and where the paparazzi would leave Hawkins to his own devices is a memory he looks back on fondly.

"In Australia, I had a bit more freedom and I was thinking, 'Okay, people don't really know who we are, we're here to make an impression,' and the idea of us being on the Big Day Out was to sort of introduce us to it and the Australian audience and give us a chance to do what we did in the UK, which is turning up at festivals and trying to blow people away," he remembers.

"We'd already done all that work on home territory in 2003, so it was nice to sort of go back to rolling our sleeves up and doing what we knew. The difficult part of being successful is that first bit when you're actually successful and you're like, 'Oh, fuck, what do we do?'

"Until that point you're just fighting and scrapping," he continues. "It didn't happen for us until I was 28, so that was a lot of scrapping. Suddenly you don't have to scrap anymore and then you come to Australia and it's a scrap again.

"So it came at the perfect moment for us, and it'll always be a really, really special memory."

Tickets to The Darkness' Australian tour are on sale now.