Real Closure?

"Wow, wow okay!” ESG's delightfully enthused original and still dancing front-lady Renee Scroggins laughs hysterically when respectfully asked what the age span between the youngest and oldest member of the band now is. Turns out the youngest is her son, who's 23 years-old. Considering ESG formed almost 35 years ago, well, you get the picture. But don't question whether ESG is in any way out of touch with the youth of today. “No!” baulks Scroggins. “I mean, playing for the audiences, sometimes the young kids will really, really trip me out. Recently we did a show and one of the kids came with a parent; an original ESG fan. And they were like, 'Gee, I told my kids and the kid was so impressed.' So it's a real generational thing and it's really cool!”

Although the Bronx original nu wavers have gone through many line-up changes and played numerous 'last shows', ESG's legacy is still alive and well and truly still kickin' out the jams. So much so that, despite this current Australian tour being touted as part of their last ever (and coming off an EP fittingly titled Closure), Scroggins is already considering different plans. “It's not so much that we want to call it quits,” Scroggins admits. “I want to continue to play as long as I possibly can play. And what it is, we've been playing for 34 years, and actually for 34 years we've been constantly travelling or in the studio and things to that effect. I mean, I love it, and my sisters love it, and my daughter, my nieces; we'd all love it as a family to be able to continue to write music and to do music… I can't say it's the end because, it's so funny, we're actually ready to go into the studio and record something new. We thought Closure was going to be it, but unfortunately... Well, fortunately it's good because we're writing something based upon new things that go on in our lives.”

So, hang on; not only are the Factory Records and Soul Jazz legends considering continuing touring, they're also planning another album? Doesn't sound like Closure… “Well, they're actually filming a documentary called Closure: The ESG Story, and as we go along and the more people are interested and wanna hear the music, it's like the longer the fans are out there that really wanna hear our music and really wanna come, we want to keep going. It's so funny, because I meet the fans and they're so young and I'm like, 'Wow, what can they really know about ESG?!' But the fact they know our history, it really blows me away… To see people so passionate about the music, that's what keeps you out there.”

Keeping productive is certainly no mean feat so many years on. And, if you listen to Closure, it's still sounding very ESG, yet very unique. The music follows rather similarly the format they so successfully set all those decades ago yet, somewhat perplexingly, it's still sounding more now than ever. So what's their secret? “I feel that with ESG's music, it's true that you can't even predict when it was written. It's not stuck in time – it doesn't go through different kinds of phases of music; ESG music stays the same. So you really can't tell whether I've recorded the song in 1980 or whether I recorded it yesterday.”

Their mix of punk and disco is a sound so impacting that ESG have earned the widely-accepted title of being the most sampled act of all time. It's a tag that Scroggins has mixed emotions about, her dislike of sampling perfectly evidenced by their 1992 retirement-ending EP Sample Credits Don't Pay Our Bills. And, being the livewire that Scroggins so charmingly is, she's not been afraid to share her views with anyone within earshot. Amongst the many lively discussions she's had, her debate with Gregg Gillis – aka sample king Girl Talk – for XLR8R was a standout, resulting in a barrage of entertaining jabs and relentless swings, culminating in her final lesson for Gillis: “I'm a girl from the Bronx and we grew up on the streets, and you don't take people's stuff! That's an insult. You don't do that, understand?”

You get the feeling Scroggins wouldn't be too happy if their career was going to end with them being known primarily as the most sampled band in music history. “I think we created a sound that was different; a sound that a lot of hip hop artists now use,” Scroggins defends ESG's legacy. “Besides the fact of sampling, we kinda went out there and created something. So now basically when you hear hip hop songs, it has a lot of memorable music behind it, so I think we've done more than just being known as the most sampled band. I mean, we created songs, we created music, we were out there as women artists when there wasn't a lot of women bands out there playin'. “

Many would see the sampling record setting as a badge of honour; a sign of others' respect for ESG's originality, using it to inspire further creativity. “Yeeeeeeahhhhhh,” Scroggins laughs cautiously, “Yeah, it's kinda interesting, but on the other hand, when you know that you're not being compensated properly, you're not even listed on their record and their record only exists because of your music. One of the things I remember, and will never forget: we were playing a show one night and we were playing UFO and someone was like, 'Oh man, they're playing the Beastie Boys!'… So that was one of the funniest things to actually have to sit there and argue with people that, 'No, this is my stuff.' And that's the thing when you don't get your proper credit. And sometimes you get credit, but at the end of the day if they give you credit but they don't give you your money, then it's still not worth nothin'.”

UFO alone has been sampled to help create over 60 well-known tracks, including everything from the Beasties' Sure Shot to Queen's We Will Rock You. And whilst Scroggins may not be happy about the processes, her sample chasing – with a little help from lawyers – has resulted in ESG getting a fair whack of their dues back. Whether it's chasing her fees or doing whatever, pleases, Scroggins isn't the only character in her family band. And like any family, you'd expect there to be some serious next level bust-ups, as there most certainly have been. “Yeah, there's been some wild situations,” Scroggins grins. “Generally you are able to deal with it because you are family and can put it away. But I think that action and that energy goes into the music. As we're beating the congos, beating the cowbells or clapping, shaking the tambourine like, yeah, you can put all that frustration right into the instrument!”

ESG will be playing the following dates:

Thursday 17 January - The Hi-Fi, Melbourne VIC
Friday 18 January - Oxford Art Factory, Sydney NSW
Saturday 19 January - Sugar Mountain Festival, Melbourne VIC
Sunday 20 January - The Bakery, Perth WA