The Prolific Creative Madness That Drives Chali 2na

I thought for a long time about what I would ask this week’s MC. For over 17 years, I’ve listened to the smoothest baritone in hip hop teach me about Quality Control, Power In Numbers, Concrete Schoolyards and now, Chali 2na is talking to yours truly about our mutual love for the hip hop culture. Put the kettle on, dip some paint on the brush and let’s talk rap.
“I’m just sitting here painting, chilling, relaxing... Everything is as good as it can be,” 2na tells me. “I’m home from a three week run, this is the first day I’ve actually been home and I’m relaxed as fuck!” he laughs, and it’s exactly how you imagine it would be; a warm, deep, and contagiously joyful laugh.
Associated with groups Ozomatli and Jurassic 5, 2na is far more than just an MC in the groups. He’s released his own solo album and several mix-tapes, is an incredibly talented spoken word artist, voice over artist, photographer (having his own coffee table book successfully crowd funded and published), plus he’s a dope AF painter! So where’d this all begin?

“Any musical background that I have as far as training is concerned is definitely filtered through the culture of hip hop - that’s what gives me interest in wanting to do music. My mumma would listen to all kinds of music, that’s what made me fall in love with it and not be so closed minded about what I listened to. Hip hop being like a mosaic though, you know what I’m saying?

Pieces of everything put together to make something that is unique in itself; it just fit perfectly for me. The skills I now have, they’ve been taught to me through hip hop so it’s cool to be able to take those things that I’ve learned through rose colour glasses, so to speak, and apply them to other genres. I like to dabble with everything and see what sticks.

The photography definitely grew from the painting. It wasn’t necessarily a passion at the time… being a painter I wanted to learn how to get so detailed that you couldn’t tell if what you were looking at was a photograph or not. I’ve never got that good but the pursuit of that has been the funnest thing.
So later on when I had a child, I had Jurassic 5 and broader musical opportunities. I wanted to document every step of the way so that when my son got old enough to appreciate some of the stuff I had it for him to check out. It just grew from there. What was beautiful about something like Instagram was that suddenly I had a place to play around with my hobby and see if it could grow into something more.”

It’s interesting because linguistically I’ve always found 2na’s vocab (or verses) to be full of imagery while ironically his images also paint a thousand words. It’s impressive (whilst also feeling frustratingly envious) the artist has not only found so many passions, but passions he’s incredibly talented at.

“In the end anybody I said I’d love to do a song with, whether I asked or they asked… if they feel into that category (collaborating), I felt like I could learn something from them and better myself and my craft, ya know? I always try and approach collaborations in that fashion. There are very small, to very great things you can learn, but I’m always looking for that lesson.”

I find it hard to play a game of monopoly with my sisters let alone create a linguistic tapestry with five other people. Was it difficult constructing artistic expression in the group and does that become easier when you write solo?

“There’s no method to the madness, man! We’ve done it just about every different way because we don’t want song structures to get boring. We want to see how having the four of us at our disposal can create the perfect song. That might take all four, three, two or even one. But we all have to have the absence of ego enough to say what’s the best for the song and not what’s the best for us individually. “

And this is where I really wanted to get to. When you speak to a hip hop legend about where we (yes, WE) are at with the music. Are we filling the shoes or does our ‘new wave’ need to step up? I love some of what Australia’s producing (or more broadly on an international scale) but I can’t help but feel at times rap tracks don’t have the longevity they used to…

“They don’t have to. You know, let’s be real, that’s the pursuit of currency more than the pursuit of creating something that’s timeless. Why not actually love the art form itself? A bi-product of the art can be the money or the girls or whatever it is they’re chasing. If the product is strong enough it will get you those things but nowadays kids are more interested in style and how things look as apposed to how they sound and how long they last.

The internet is a son of a bitch because everything is at arms reach, everyone is so desensitised and nothing is sacred anymore. If you participate in the music aspect, the structure and the style they’re doing is ‘rap,’ I’ll give them that, but it’s not hip hop.

They don’t adhere to the code and ethics that we uphold in trying to be individuals, and by individual I mean ORIGINAL! The things we did or do, we want it to be our own, not like the next artist. That’s what created the difference between then and now, to me we wanted to make music that stood the test of time. Like, you can put on a Run DMC record and you going to rock out - I don’t care who the fuck you are.
Music is instant today; it’s bubblegum. I love saying this, you take the wrapper off, you chew it til the flavours gone then you move on to the next thing.”

I’m not in the business of calling people out, nor am I about to. But I feel like there’s a massive conversation about some language in hip hop. There is no such thing as ‘conscious’ hip hop (ever heard someone rap in their sleep?). Mumble rap is not even worthy of defending its own musicianship and this ‘new wave’ shit people are talking about is so Americanised, MC’s think they’re ballin’ like 50, rollin’ on 20s and sippin’ on 40s. Let’s get a little more authentic behind our artistry, hey? What is this negative, dark ‘in the club’ shit?

Jurassic 5 didn’t start a movement like Tupac, Biggie or NWA - no one’s saying that. The reason why J5 deserve (at least) association with your Chance, Kendrick or Cole is because their originality stemmed from real composition, both lyrically and musically. It’s far more complex than simply a rapper on a digital or synth-heavy beat.

“Well, my mumma says, ‘Aint nothing new under the sun.’ That is, we all take our inspirations and create something that may be our own, but at its core is something that already exists. With Jurassic, we were regurgitating things we loved: old school, Cold Crush, Grand Master Flash type vibe. All of us had an old school ethic about us and liked that era of hip hop. We had stuff in common but we were able to put our individual, original sources on already existing foundations while giving props to the forefathers.”

I think that, from a cultural perspective, a forefather is someone that helped pave the way and now looks after hip hop. A pioneer is someone who continues to sculpt and work for the movement. It sounds to me like the destination isn’t necessarily the Hip Hop Hall of Fame?

2na laughs: “Man, I’d love to retire on an island somewhere with a life time supply of canvases and oil pants. Oh, and ganja! Just sit there and smoke and paint. I’m just appreciating life, you know? I appreciate the fact that God blessed me with opportunities beyond anything I would have imagined for myself.”

I can appreciate that, at times, less is more. It’s not necessarily about how fast you rap or what social issue you’re commenting on. Sometimes the most simple and pure of messages are the best audibly. Is that what you dislike about some up and comers?

“I like song writing. Sometimes you hear a track and you just think, “That was dope, I liked that.’ But I’m a lyricist, I love lyricism, so I love when someone can paint a picture or coin a phrase that makes you see something in a way that you hadn’t thought of before.

There are not a lot of new artists doing that now, you know what I’m saying? It’s almost like they depressed, rapping about opiates ‘n’ shit. I want it to be less depressing, that shit is infectious to kids. I know how deep that goes and I know the power of that, I’m scared about it. These artists going round saying, ‘I’m rich now life ain’t shit.” Player, what you depressed about!? You got all this money and not a long record and you’re rapping about Xanax and Percocet; it makes no sense to me.”

With the vastly expansive internet, I can also understand that artists may be under more pressure, expectation and therefor scrutiny. Was that apparent back in the day or is that indeed What’s Golden?

“The industry just wants a hit, man, and when they have it, the system is set up to be like suction cups on all different angles and levels so everyone gets a piece of that pie, but pressures and expectations? There’s pressure from labels sure, because there are obligations to be filled. But you don’t need labels now a days, I’ve seen dudes build an empire off YouTube. And producers? They got it good ‘cause they strayed away from what we used to do, which was sampling, but now, don’t nobody want to get sued. They makin’ their own beats…scary enough, old school rules still apply: the producer gets all the damn money. A whole lot more money for doing a whole lot less.

That’s why you see so many dudes on the road now, ‘cause that’s the only place you can make money. KRS-1 said a long time ago, ‘You can have a hit and tour two years, or you can have a great show and tour forever.’ That’s kinda where Jurassic 5 came in.”

2na tells me him and Krafty are planning on visiting our shores later in the year.

“Krafty is amazing man. I mean, firstly, just legendary, but secondly, he’s a stand up guy, you know what I mean? Later with the music and everything, he’s just a good human being and I first and foremost look at that and I want that to be the basis, especially in my age bracket, the basis of any relationship that I deal with. Especially in the music business, I want someone I can trust and have fun with and respect… that’s who Krafty is to me.

"Now musically? AMAZING! He has this ear and quirky way of being able to hear through maybe something that might be new at the time in the studio. He be like, ‘Nah, man, why don’t we do it like this? And I be like. ‘Oh shit wow!’ I like that dude a lot, man, it’s a blessing to be able to work with him and a blessing to be able to collaborate with him on the. I’m happy to be in this position.”