Are we correct in thinking the band recorded some of the early demos for Ivy And The Big Apples at Bakehouse?

JE: Yes!

W: Yeah, at the other one - the other Bakehouse.

JE: Oh, in Fitzroy. But we did a record downstairs here, didn't we?

W: Yeah, we made our first album here [Shashavaglava] back when it was called Stable Sound in about 1991. I think that was about six months before it became Bakehouse. It's still the same, though - the office is the same - but it was $600 for seven songs.

K: So we feel pretty sentimental about it, Quincy [McLean] and Helen [Marcou] we've known for years and, yeah! We've been here so many times over the years... We're just sort of getting to know [Ivy And The Big Apples] songs again.

So what are some of the tracks from Ivy... that have never been played live before?

W: Goin' Off.

K: Well Joyce's Hut we've never played before. Horschack Army we've never played. Goin' Off - never played. A lot of ones that have more colour and are maybe a little different. It's weird, this tour is already heaps bigger than the original Ivy... tour, like, it's really going nuts! And, in a way, we're stoked about that - it's brilliant. But also I think we almost feel like for a song like Goin' Off, we would've found that pretty hard to play back then but - not because we couldn't - because, at the time, bands didn't tend to try and do all those different things live. Whereas now - like, for me, that was an essential; that's a really quiet, acoustic song. We're going to do it together and it'll be a really intimate moment of the set. So that's what I like. I think we feel more confident now, as a band, than we were when we first started, which is one of the good things about being around for so long: we get a chance to celebrate it, the success of the record and its anniversary. But also I'm just really looking forward to playing, particularly the songs we haven't really played before.

Does rehearsing the songs take you back to what was going on in your lives at the time of writing?

JE: Yeah, we were talking about that, 'cause there's so many references to share-housing all through it, isn't there?

K: And we did demo-ing in Finley.

W: The derelict house.

K: Some family friends of ours from Finley, they had an old house on their property... [turns to Janet] You had that in your farm...

JE: We have the original house.

K: You had the original house, and they often don't even bother knocking it down - you just build in another part of the property. And I remember when we used to go to that house, it had really old palm trees and yet the house was totally derelict and we used to have parties in there and stuff.

JE: It would've been, like, turn of the century, 1900s.

W: The power was still connected even though the house was derelict.

K: And this house that we went and jammed in... I think in some ways the record is very much representative of our becoming a successful Melbourne band, and immersing ourselves in the scene here. But then, going to the farm house, you sort of, like, go back to the time before that - even before we moved here [Melbourne]. And it was really isolating; it was just us and a couple of horses. And so I felt that was, like, the transitional time before we went to Sydney.

JE: We drove up, didn't we?

K: Yeah, we drove up.

JE: So we left here, did those sessions and, like, the nearest neighbour is, what? A couple of Ks [away] or something? .

W: Yeah, that was the best thing about it: no one could hear us and the silence was beautiful and the smell...

K: Which would've been beautiful anyway, but the fact we were all were born in that place and that was something about the band, yeah. Well, especially for us, because we all come from the same town and it's not like there was any music scene there or anything. So, in a way, it was like going back to that as well as embracing what we…

JE: Didn't you guys do - remember the caravan? Demos in the caravan?

K: Yeah that's where we first wrote Calypso.

JE: That was in the back of your mum's house.

K: Yeah, mum had parked it in the garage.

JE: Parked her caravan in the garage, haha.

W: So that's another classic country Australian thing right there, you know?... We just did it on acoustic. I actually believe that it was written on this guitar.

JE: Do you? My mum's old guitar.

W: This is Janet's mum's old guitar.

JE: It's got a hole in it, but don't worry about it.

K: I think there's the thing about - in the country, maybe you just make do with what you've got. So there's no rehearsal room, so let's do it in the garage, you know?

JE: Ha!

K: Wherever you can.

W: We were really busy that year. We weren't even in the country when that record came out, we were in Canada and the States. It came out in October '96, yeah.

JE: I just remember I was at home for, like, two weeks of the entire year and I was living in this stinking share-house that had mould and mushrooms growing out of the shower. But we were travelling the whole time; I never saw it. [Rent] was probably, like, 20 bucks a week. [To Whitt] But you ended up living in a van, didn't you?

W: We were travelling, writing or recording for that whole year. Or playing.

JE: That's when you went into the van.

W: That was '97, I think.

JE: Oh, was it?

W: Yeah. It was a HiAce.

I was living in this stinking share-house that had mould and mushrooms growing out of the shower.

JE: You had it kitted it out, though, didn't you? You had a little kitchen.

W: So I decked it out. But I had some friends who were right into camping and they were really into it at the time. I plugged my four-track into the cigarette lighter.

K: Did ya? That's awesome.

W: We were nomads.

Were there many songs left over after the Ivy... recording sessions?

JE: We tossed a lot of stuff, didn't we? How many songs did we actually record?

K: There were quite a lot of B-Sides and we were considering playing some of them on this tour, but there's only one I think that we really considered playing. The record's so long anyway that I'm not sure that we'd fit them in. But I think there were about 30 [songs recorded].

W: Yeah, there was a lot.

JE: On the original list.

W: If we were to do it again, it would still be the same set of songs on the record. I don't feel like we made a mistake.

JE: And you don't like - what's that? Should Have Done What My Mum...

K: It's actually a lot better than expected: one clanger.

JE: A clanger, hahahaha.

K: I mean, I don't remember having a lot of trouble...

JE: Choosing the ones?

K: With anything. I think it was pretty natural. And the studio in 301 - the old 301 in Sydney, which is not there anymore - was a classic, really beautiful old studio and it had a really nice sound and feel.

W: We were pretty prepared, too. Like, we only recorded for 14 days and then mixed it in 12.

JE: I think we were very match-fit, too. We were just playing, like, we were just almost reading each other's minds at that time.

W: A few weeks ago I was talking to Quincy and he said he remembers when we were writing down at the other place. And he walked into the room when we weren't there and there was just papers stuck all over the walls, and a TV in the corner, and kettles. And he was just like, 'Who's the band?'

read more: spiderbait look back at old times with vintage 'ivy and the big apples' photos

[All laugh]

W: We had the TV on.

JE: While we were playing?

W: Not even anything to do with music. We were just bored, you know - cabin fever. Because back then you still had the analogue signal so you could just stick a coat hanger into an old black and white TV anyway and it would work.

JE: There must have been some sporting event.

W: We looked like those mad people, you know? Who get obsessed about detective work. I reckon it's because - I was thinking about that, why we used to do that, and I think it was just to lighten it up. So, it's for a distraction. We've always been, like, trying to have a laugh about it. But also, you know, being serious about wanting to do the best you can with the work you're trying to make. But somehow having the TV on was just a little ridiculous, and also I used to like having it there, and you'd be playing along and just, like, watching TV; watching to get a score for the footy.

K: And I think deep down it was quite a pressurised situation, because we just signed this big deal for the first time there's, you know, a lot of pressure and you don't want to fuck it up. So, in a way, that kind of just made it all a bit more humorous. It kind of made it a little less serious and that helped us to relax, which makes us perform better. And I think we've always had that thing where if we're relaxed and having a laugh, and we're just chilled-out, we'll always kick ass, like, we really do. In the early days, like, for me, personally: I used to get so wound-up in doing such a good job that it'd almost like be in spite of myself, you know? It's almost counterproductive. And you learnt to chill out and try to just enjoy yourself, and not give a shit so much, and you actually, subconsciously, do a much better performance.

JE: We used to write songs to make each other laugh and stuff like that. too.

K: Yeah, totally.

W: It's like a coping mechanism, coping with the pressure.

JE: Yeah, well there's lot of little private jokes all through this record.

K: Yeah, that's the thing I like about The Beatles. I saw that Eight Days A Week, it's just so funny - those guys, they're hilarious! And it's the way they coped with the madness just, you know, cracking jokes all the time. And we take a lot of inspiration from that band, 'cause they're just nice, funny, awesome songwriters - amazing band, but they're just not taking it too seriously. There's not this foreboding presence, you know? There's just a strong friendship bond in that band, too... Being a successful band, or whatever; it's one of those things in pop culture that a lot of people like to do... So if you actually get the band successful, and do end up doing really well, it's such a great excitement. But being able to stay there is a really different sort of feeling and you want to be able to stay there not for the same ambition that you maybe had as a kid, because you really love doing it, and it's a part who you are, and you don't want to have to let that go. Because it is a bit fraught with danger, fickleness, and it's gonna be a difficult life for some - it is very up and down.

JE: I think also safety in numbers; there's three of us to spread the load. If I was a solo performer I don't know how - with the stardom - you'd cope with that.

K: It's such a different experience with a solo artist.

JE: Oh, it'd be so isolating.

K: That's what I'm saying is, like, being able to sustain myself and stay a really successful band for 25 years is almost, for me - I'm almost more proud of that than winning the Hottest 100... or even getting signed in the first place. And just to be able to reach that point. The other thing that's really great about it is you don't really care what people think so much anymore, like, you're not arrogant, you're just so happy to be here. But you seem impenetrable to criticism and to whether you're in the scene or not; you just don't give a fuck anymore, because you've traversed to this other side where everything is really just like a bonus. And that makes you play so well, like, our shows now are so full of life; you feel set free from a lot of that expectation that you have when you are a young band, whether it be from peers or from your label or other bands or yourself. I just don't feel any of those things anymore; I just really feel confident and at ease and it's an absolute pleasure to be able to play.

Do you remember being aware of how you wanted Spiderbait to be regarded in the scene around the time Ivy... was taking shape?

K: I think we wanted to be a cool band and to be successful, it's undeniable; that's why bands don't go for the biggest amount of money if it's a really crap thing that's gonna make everyone think your band's totally shit.

W: Even though, like, we were inevitably part of the music scene, or culture, in Australia, I think we've still kind of pretty much just been concerned with what we're doing as well.

K: Yeah, I agree. Honestly, we didn't ever look to far ahead at any time. With Ivy..., I think we just wanted to make it a really good record and we just realised this is our chance to really take the next step. I remember we played the Big Day Out that year, or the year before, to capacity, remember that? We did Old Man Sam and it was our first, like…

"We were savvy enough to make sure that we owned the record ourselves and we did a P&D deal where Universal, who we were with at the time, Polydor, offered to put the second record out."

JE: '96?

K: It was just going from playing pubs to this huge festival and getting the entire 30,000 [capacity] crowd with you. You feel the change and I think that had an effect on the record, too; knowing we wanna make songs that are bigger. And it's that transition where you feel yourself turning into a bigger band. But, I agree with Whitt, we were very much concentrating on what we were doing and hopefully if that was right then things would work out.

So when did Spiderbait sign to Universal in relation to Ivy And The Big Apples?

W: We had one record out on a major label.

K: We funded that, [The Unfinished] Spanish Galleon [Of Finley Lake] - we left Au-Go-Go and we funded our own album, 'cause we were making good money and we thought, 'Well we just wanna be independent and see what happens,' 'cause, at that time, there was a lot of transition with bands. And I guess it's a little hard for bands to relate to now, in a sense, but it really was quite a volatile time where people - bands and artists - were really questioning their own identity in a sense of like, 'Do I go here and earn this money?' But if you've come from a background of being sceptical about the motivations of those businesses, you're really gonna be worried [about] how it's gonna affect you creatively, you know; there's a sense that maybe you won't be the same band. But for us it really helped us blossom, and almost break away from the Melbourne scene that we were in, and made us a national band. And I think, in some ways, we really found ourselves through that. Plus, we were savvy enough to make sure that we owned the record ourselves and we did a P&D deal where Universal, who we were with at the time, Polydor, offered to put the second record out.

JE: Was it Pressing and Distribution, I think? Where that's all they did, yeah.

K: We signed a long-term contract and they pretty much have always just given us as much money as we want to do whatever we like; we haven't really been under the microscope like a lot of other bands have. But this was our first major-label record, I guess, Ivy..., so we really wanted it to be something special. And 'cause, after we left the Sydney sessions…

W: That was the first time we'd been in a studio where people kept making coffee and they'd go and get your lunch all the time.

JE: That was great!

W: Fully air conditioned and halogen down lighting.

K: I think a lot of labels didn't have a clue about what this sort of music was that these bands were making, so they were just like, 'Well you just do whatever you do and we'll give you whatever you want,' and that was perfect for us.

And we had this wonderful relationship with our producer in Phil [McKellar] and, yeah! It sorta felt like this was our chance to make our strongest record. Yeah, [the label] were really good to us... And then I think we had to go to America to do a tour.

JE: We spent a lot of time in America that year, actually.

K: And we've listened to it, and we were just going, 'It's really great, and there's some killer songs, but it's just missing something,' and so that's when we went to Rockinghorse in Byron, which is - the studio's quite trashy and just pretty lo-fi, and we just did a whole bunch of more lo-fi stuff. Whitt brought in some stuff that he'd done on his sampler and some four-track stuff, and it just added a bit of colour to the record, and it wasn't until that session that it just kind of felt it was finished... I was actually really disappointed until we got the Byron stuff back. And I'm just like, 'It just feels like it's just - it's linear, something's wrong.' It was just, 'It's missing something!'

JE: You wanted heavy stuff!

K: And so I almost got a bit worried, I was, like, 'Oh, fuck!'

W: I had a sense that ...Spanish Galleon... was actually a bit more colourful. Looking back at it, I don't think that at all, but at the time...

K: And it was just that - I think both of us were like, 'We wanna make - I guess - an impact,' for us. But once the Byron stuff came back and the order was put together then I did think, 'Mmm, I think there's a good chance that this is gonna be a good record.'

Were there different technological developments that you were able to integrate while recording this album?

"Buy Me A Pony I was like, 'Yeah, cool'. But I thought Calypso was gonna be a bigger song."

W: Yeah, it was an interesting time for technology when we were recording. It was just 'cause Ivy... was the last record done recording straight to tape; it was before ProTools and digital recording. So it was the last - because Grand Slam was the first time when we started using ProTools.

JE: Okay.

W: I'd bought a sampler about a year before we started doing Ivy... and there's a couple of tracks that use the sampler, or I've sampled our own playing. So that was kinda like a new sound as well; it was still us playing, it was just a different approach to coming up with ideas but also kind of a fledgling understanding of the technology [laughs]. There's a kind of honesty about it, I think. I listen to Horschack Army and, like, some of the bits in that - one section's in A and the other's in A-sharp, whereas I know that if I did it now I'd make sure that it was all in tune. But there's bits in it that are just - 'cause the technology was pretty primitive, you had to, like, speed things up to get them in time but, yeah! Horschack was just recorded using a sampler on four-track tape in the bedroom when I was living in the snow.

K: It's weird, we did the first bunch of recordings and then we went our separate ways and then we had a tour, but then you went up to the snow for a while. I think we both went off and did things, and so we had a little bit of a breather and then [Whitt] he brings in this song, which is Joyce's Hut, and he's like, 'Oh maybe we can add this in,' and we're like, 'Nah, this is finished!' Like, we really just loved - it's got such a great character about it. You can really feel that kind of recording, and also the vocal, and so we just put that on as it was. So maybe a different song you might have worked on the whole song a lot more, you know, together, but - regardless of what it is or how it sounds - if it sounds right and all three of us agree then it's nearly always good.

W: But, like, normally with Joyce's Hut I would've got really obsessed about it, wanting to rerecord it and make it perfect and all that.

JE: But it was just a demo.

W: But then I played it to you guys and you were more objective, like, I would never have put just that demo [on the album].

Was presenting diversity from track to track important to you during Ivy And The Big Apples' creative process?

K: That was our intention at the time... One of our things was - being in our band - is that you can have a go at anything; if you like the song, it doesn't matter what the production is. 'Cause we always love to do that... For me, it comes from growing up and listening to mainstream pop radio and watching Countdown, and pop music almost being like a mixtape of various things... We used to listen to Pink Floyd all the time and I was thinking about this the other day, I was listening to Relics, and we used to listen to this record all the time - that's a compilation - and it just reminds me of the way [gestures toward Whitt] you and I connect, so much - it was all the jammy-ness and stuff. But it was always as mixed as anyone's record collection. And also that's what The Beatles used to do. What is it? Revolver, like, it's all over the place - I always liked that.

Did the tracklisting come together easily?

K: I think putting Chest Hair at the front was really...

W: Putting When Infusion Rocks The Earth at number four was pretty cool.

JE: Pretty bold, yeah.

K: I remember we really wanted to do that: we gotta introduce the changes early. So you have three really tight, hit songs first and then number four's really twisted. So if you look at the history of records, it's really common; track four is when it's time to move, so if you do another one it's just like, 'Aaaaah' - you're waiting too long.

JE & W: Yeah.

K: That [When Infusion Rocks The Earth]'s some people's favourite song, so when they see it live it's gonna be a spin-out. 'Cause Janet - I don't think we've ever played that before, maybe once or twice, but Janet plays guitar on that so there's two guitars.

W: Like Kram was saying, some people love When Fusion Ruled The Earth and at the same time I've seen people skip it.

[JE & K laugh]

W: Yeah, my sister's babysitter was listening to it and it came on [reaches forward as if to press skip]

JE: But [the album has a] pretty clear the vision there's, like, girly pop and boy-y metal in one band.

K: That's us!

W: It's funny.

JE: My friend said if you can write music that connects with drunk adults and babies, then you're on a winner. That sums up my career!

Was there a feeling while Ivy... was being created that you were working on something special?

JE: Nup, I don't reckon. I mean, we thought it was special, but we kinda didn't know bands like us could, you know, crack the top ten and all this sort of stuff - that really hadn't happened in Australia, had it?

W: I think you're really just trying to do the best you can.

K: I always felt pretty good about it. I imagine a lot of people are the same, like, you finish a record and you kind of feel like it's the best thing you've done.

JE: Pretty proud!

K: I thought Calypso was really special, but it was too short so we had to make an edit on that song and change it to make sure it was longer. And once that was done I was like, 'This is a really special song'. And Buy Me A Pony I was like, 'Yeah, cool'. But I thought Calypso was gonna be a bigger song.

What effect did Buy Me A Pony (Ivy And The Big Apples' first single) topping triple j's Hottest 100 poll have on the band and where were you when you found out?

K: Well, we were the first Australian band to win. So that's the first time ever that an Australian song had won.

W: I don't remember, I think I was in Byron.

JE: I thought we were in Hobart. I thought we were playing with Silverchair in Hobart that day. I remember everyone saying, 'You've won the triple j hottest 100,' and we said, 'What's that?' I'd never heard of it. I had no idea what it was.

K: It wasn't nearly as big of a thing for bands. It was still a big thing for me, but now it's just crazy - people wait all day! Hahahaha, that was innocent times.

W: 'Cause it makes the news, you know.

K: We're really proud of it. It's a really cool thing to win and to be the first is just always - like I say, those sort of things really give you confidence that you're going in the right direction. But also, I was thinking about - it's not just that we won, it's the song! Because that's a cynical song about the music business and it's very humorous but it's also very dark; about how artists get picked up and pumped up and then spat out and, you know, it happens all the time. And also it was reflective of our feelings of conflict about what we were going through, and for the audience on triple j to vote for that song proves that they were feeling the same thing. It's nice that it actually is a song that's meaningful in a sense, I think... We thought it was a pretty special song.

JE: We had a list of, like, 20 songs and it was just mush in our heads and I think it was you [Kram] that said, 'Well, we should put this one out'.

K: You know what? It's different and that's the thing. It's the same thing that happened with Black Betty; when a song's really different, and when it stands out, it'll either be the first single or it'll end up off the record - the band lose the courage to put it out. That's my theory, anyway. But if something's really different, that's the one we should go with.

Did you attend the ceremony when Ivy And The Big Apples won the 1997 ARIA Award for Best Alternative Release?

K: No, we didn't go. Back then we were just like, 'Oh, ARIAs. Weird'. We were still very much in our punk rock, anti-establishment mentality.

JE: Who took it? Richard Wilkins?

K: Yeah, Richard Wilkins accepted it on our behalf.

[Laughter all 'round]

K: But we didn't ask him to, he just happened to be there and, yeah! I think that ruffled a few feathers, like, we didn't even watch it!

W: Rolling Stone said we were too rock to turn up. Well, if you were a British band it would make your whole career, you know?

JE: Hahahaha

K: But it wasn't because - we just felt uncomfortable, it wasn't that we were going, 'Fuck you!' to the ARIAs. You know, I've done the ARIAs so many times since and I even did a thing for the 30th anniversary. But, it's funny they didn't ask me about that - oh, no, they did ask me about that! And then whenever we got nominated after that, we did go [to the ceremony]; it was fun to have a party.

JE: I don't like music awards shows, I've never...

K: I mean, we were still happy to win so that was good. It's better to not turn up and win than turn up and lose.

[All laugh]