Quashing The Stereotype: ‘Being A Working Mother In Music Is Perfectly Viable’

“For women in music, it’s one or the other” – so Charlotte Abroms, Digital Strategist and Music Manager (Hear Hear Group), was once told by a colleague. 

Both Abroms and Ainslie Wills – a Melbourne singer-songwriter on Hear Hear Group’s management roster – welcomed babies into the world around the same time earlier this year and look forward to creating visibility and promoting inclusivity for new mums working in the music business.

We find the pair more inspired than ever to continue to create new work while navigating the joys and challenges of new motherhood. 

Thank you so much, Charlotte, for sharing the beautiful poem you recited at the 2022 One Of One International Women’s Day Breakfast earlier this year – there were many tears shed around the room. Particularly given that you were rather pregnant while reciting this poem, the following lines really resonated: “To those, like me, who were told if you want to be a mother / Well, it’s one or the other.” Can you please tell us a bit more about the situation/s that inspired this excerpt from your poem?

Charlotte Abroms: “Thank you for listening. People wrote to me and said they cried. Hopefully good tears. Didn’t mean to make everyone cry!

“That was a direct quote from a colleague. Alarming statistics had been released about the lack of women in senior positions in the Australian music industry, which led to a bigger discussion about women who are in senior roles globally. This colleague told me that all the women he knows in senior roles didn’t have a family. He said, “Well, unfortunately for women in music, it’s one or the other.” He was referring to choosing between having a career and having a family.

“Based on my experience growing up with my own Mum, I never saw motherhood and career success as being mutually exclusive, because I saw her have both. 

“I was concerned that this comment was made in front of a young woman who later asked me if I was worried about my ‘ticking biological clock’. What bothered me most about the comment was not so much that it was spoken by a very anti-woke middle-aged man (that was expected), but that it influenced the way a young person saw me, as though I was at a disadvantage and there was something that I should be worrying about. It made me feel like I had a time limit.

“These comments injected fear into me around how all-consuming my role in the music industry had become. What I now realise is that when you are a freelance music manager to developing acts, self-releasing, it is difficult to be anything else to anyone else.I am sure this applies to other roles in music. The people who received my undivided attention at the time were my clients. That was the only way I could keep up with the demands and be a good manager and colleague and constant-responder-of-emails. 

“I can confidently say that it’s not one or the other. It’s perfectly viable to be a working mother in the music business. I am so excited to be able to do both! Music mothers have better boundaries and use their time more wisely to work smarter. It’s something I have always admired from afar and something I am now beginning to experience.”

Congratulations on becoming a mum! How have the first few months with your brand new addition been for you?

CA: “Thank you! It has been wonderful. There is growth and progression every day. I spent nine months preparing to be able to take time off and the reward is now being able to dedicate so much time to learning our baby and getting to know his tiny personality and what his baby coos mean.”

Ainslie Wills: “People always say, 'There's nothing that can prepare you for parenthood,' and they are one hundred percent correct! It has been the full gamut of emotions: awesome, awful, challenging, hilarious, heart-bursting – I could go on! I think there's an expectation for mothers to love every moment with bubs, that has definitely not been the case for me and I think that's totally okay. I'm learning every day.”

From my previous discussions with musician mums, it seems their time is always stretched in so many different directions – childcare, housework, (quite often) working another job to supplement income earned though making music/working in a creative field. Then when something has to give, the mum’s time making music/working in a creative field is the first to be eaten into. Thoughts on how we can ensure this is not just automatically the case?

CA: “Whether they are a parent or not, my experience of musicians and music industry workers is that their time is stretched!

“It’s difficult to make an income in the arts, which often means prioritising other means of income before creativity. I have always based my management style on working towards a goal for the artist to be able to dedicate as much time as possible to creating. I do this by trying to take away a lot of the day-to-day admin from the artist and take it on myself.

“For the first time in my life I’ve stripped out any day-to-day admin (while on maternity leave), so I’m feeling my creativity flow back in. I’m thinking about what I want to be for myself, my family and for my new baby son. 

“It’s reaffirming that my natural instinct always leads to creativity – ideas, writing, brainstorming, creating. So in this case, I’ve had the opposite experience. I can feel creativity brewing in the wings and I feel so excited about it.”

AW: “It's so true! I think it starts with visibility. Before I had my son, I felt there were only a small handful of examples where I was seeing mums doing both career and mum-ing and I wanted to see more. Women can and do both, but there needs to be infrastructure around support. I also think that men have been delegated to a fringe role in the past and this has changed a lot. I'm fortunate to have a partner that supports me as a mother and a creative, he supports me to do both as he knows how important it is for me to have my career/creative output; I'm a better person/mum/partner when I get to do the things I love.”

Through Georgia Fields’ Mother Lode website, I learned about this ace musician mum, trumpet player Madison Foley (Fools), who created this infographic to help educate venue owners and band bookers about how they can make their venues more accomodating for breastfeeding muso mums. What are your thoughts on this?

CA: “Amazing! I’m a big fan of any sort of rider that promotes inclusivity and diversity. I’ve created values documents and sustainability plans and equality riders that go to venues and festivals – to ensure we are always keeping inclusivity, accessibility and environmental sustainability on the forefront of our minds. If breastfeeding, pumping or parenting is a barrier for an individual, then it’s absolutely essential that there’s more awareness and acceptance for new mums. I think it’s a great idea!”

AW: “I started welling up when I read that! Being a mother can be incredibly isolating for many reasons, so anything that connects them to feeling more comfortable in their workspaces is fantastic and points to that visibility issue I was talking about. There will be a time where this is normalised within venues and people can get on with what they love doing.”

Have you ever become aware of such a thing as a nanny or childcare service that’s provided backstage at a festival or as part of a rehearsal studio or anything like that? Would this be helpful? Is there a demand for such a thing, do you think?

CA: “I have only heard of this from musicians who can afford it. In the same way I have always said it would be amazing to bring an emotional support person on tour, or a personal trainer, absolutely there should be a service for new parents to bring a nanny on tour to support working and travelling parents. I would have loved to be a music nanny back in my teenage nannying days! In my experience, the issue always comes back to finance. At times it’s difficult enough to afford flights and instruments, so paying for another person to come on tour is the barrier.”

AW: “I've often thought about this exact thing. I've thought of starting a business where you supply nannies who are specifically connected to the music industry who are there to look after the kids whilst you play. I've never heard of it actually being a thing in venues or festivals yet, but I think it would be pretty amazing.”

Did you have lots of conversations with your partner/support system in advance, before the birth of your child, about who was gonna do what in terms of unpaid labour/housework and how you were going to make it all work so that you would still have adequate time to continue creating music/pursuing your chosen career?

CA: “We’ve both always seen family and career as being something that exists concurrently. Supporting one another’s creativity comes naturally to us, so thankfully we haven’t had to have too many conversations about housework or unpaid labour. It’s a naturally equal partnership and we’re lucky to have flexibility in our careers. I see this in most of my friend’s relationships, too. It’s important that creativity prospers during such a special time.”

AW: “We definitely had conversations about what we wanted our life to look like once bubs was born. I was terrified that I was going to be swallowed up into a mum-hole and never do anything creative again, it really can feel like it's the end of your life as you knew it but I now believe that anything is possible if you have the right support. We share the responsibilities and roles as much as we can and we make it work.” 

What are your thoughts on musician mums posting heaps of baby pics on social media? It’s so great for aspiring-muso mums to see that it’s possible to continue a career in music once you’ve become a mum, but I’m sure there are loads of other considerations such as fearing that you perhaps wouldn’t be considered for certain things, because you’re a mum? But this is also a really personal decision for each mum – a lot to unpack there! Thoughts?

CA: “How people treat their social media is such a personal thing. I see a lot of people posting pictures of their kids on social media (in all industries). It’s a shame that this is even a question, but I can understand why it is. Sadly, I've spoken to people in music who are nervous about others finding out that they’re becoming a parent and how they might be perceived.

“I hear plenty of male colleagues talking about their families proudly without fear of it hindering their career, so everyone should be able to!

“The question we should be asking is: why wouldn’t a musician be considered for something because they’re a mum? There are mums who run countries (hats off to you, Jacinda). 

“When you think about it logically and strip out any learned bias, it’s pretty straightforward – being a mum doesn’t stop someone from writing a song or playing a show, neither does being a dad. It feels like an excuse to be sexist, which is a whole separate issue. I’m hopeful we are quashing the stereotype.”

AW: “I love to see mums in the biz doing their thing with their bubs, it helps it to feel normalised. I know that for some people in the industry the whole mum thing isn't very attractive or marketable, or whatever other bullshit people go on with, but it's good to remember that everyone has/had a mum and it's a super-important role that should be celebrated and honoured at every opportunity. 

“I remember saying to Charlotte that I didn't want to tell our team that I was pregnant in case they knocked me off their list for potential opportunities, thankfully my team were super-supportive and whilst maybe I've slowed down a little, I'm more inspired than ever to continue to create new work.”

Any other things you can think of that we could do to help more women keep doing what they love doing creatively and pursuing their dreams within motherhood? 

CA: “It’s important to create visibility and continue to change these prehistoric narratives. The ‘industry’ discriminates against so many different types of people. There should be no reason why motherhood or parenthood is a hinderance. The attributes I see in parenthood – becoming a responsible, caring, hardworking, nurturing, multitasker – should be seen as a good thing! It’s a bloody superpower.

“I should note also that plenty of people who aren’t parents also possess these superpowers. Support in this industry all comes down to kindness. We should look more to the individual person and their unique circumstances, and ask ourselves how we can treat them better to help support and foster their creativity. We all need creativity.”

Read part one of our Motherhood And Music feature here.